Dropping in on the Green Machine…
Update: I’m reposting this from a year ago because I keep reading the same question from folks online. I figured it was worth putting out there again. Interestingly the 2012 new product cycle has come and gone without a reasonable cost production fat suspension fork being announced. That means for now most fat bikes will remain rigid unless you want to order a fork from Europe [ie. Sandman] or get something modified to work. So that’s really the question you need to ask yourself – Can a rigid bike be my only mountain bike?
If you are taking the time to read this post you probably already know that fat bikes are not just for snow or sand anymore. People are starting to ride fat bikes on trails that they could ride with a standard 2.1″-2.4″ mountain bike tire. Two questions I get asked frequently are 1) can a fat bike be my only mountain bike? and 2) why ride a fat bike on a trail that a normal MTB can ride?
Can a fat bike be your only MTB?
The short answer is yes.
The longer answer is yes, but you need to be realistic about what a fat bike can do well and what it’s not ideal for.
First off most fat bikes are rigid. Yes there are some niche suspension options, but nothing that I would say is reasonably priced, widely available and high performance. That will change in the next year or two, but for now you are most likely going to be riding a fully rigid fat bike. That’s good in that it will be low maintenance for harsh environments. Fat tires do provide some very limited suspension action all on their own when properly inflated. A rigid bike can be fast and efficient on smooth trails. However, as the trail gets rougher and rougher you have to slow down to maintain control plus you’ll have to stand a bunch to absorb impacts. The end result is a slower more tiring ride on rough terrain.
Secondly most fat bikes are heavy with slow rolling rubber. In order to keep costs low in a niche part of the bike industry companies are specing their bikes with heavy cheap parts and basic frame tubes. Given that wheels, tires and tubes on a fat bike are bigger than a normal MTB to begin with using heavy parts here exacerbates the problem. If you have the know how and $$$ you can put your fat bike on diet the same as any bike. Although if you are going to spend $4K on a light fat bike you might want to consider spending $2K on a stock fat bike and $2K on a light stock 29er hardtail to get more bang for your buck. Riding a heavy bike is tiring if your trails involve a lot of climbing and constant accelerations. OTOH smooth rolling trails don’t penalize a heavy bike as much.
Thirdly what do your buddies ride? The bike you ride will dictate the trails you prefer, the speed you ride and the distance you ride. If your friends are on rigid 29er single speed rigs a fat bike would likely fit into the mix a lot better than if they had uber light XC bikes or 6″+ travel all mountain bikes.
Fourthly how steep and techy are the trails you ride? Production fat bikes have pretty middle of the road MTB geometries that are good for XC riding and plowing through snow. They don’t have the super slack angles of an all mountain rig. As the downhills get steeper and rougher you won’t be smiling nearly as much as you could on a fully suspended MTB with really slack angles. The steering geometries of fat bikes are starting to vary a bit more from somewhat slacker snow friendly options like the Salsa Mukluk, to all rounders like the Surly Pugsley and dirt specific designs like the new On One dirt specific fat bike. So it’s worth doing your research before you buy.
How fit and skilled a rider are you? The better the engine and skill set the less of a handicap a heavy rigid bike is. In fact if you are the strongest rider in your posse a fat bike might be just the challenge you need to stay even with your friends. OTOH if you struggle to keep up with your regular riding partners as is do you want to make each ride more challenging?
Do you ride alone or will you be riding with other fat bikers? As soon as you take other bikers or other types of bikes out of the equation the unique capabilities of a fat bike really shine. As an exploration rig and a fun machine the big soft tires on your fat bike will let you go places and ride in ways you never thought about before.
So ultimately the answer is that a fat bike is a mountain bike and there is no reason you can’t ride it on your local dirt trails. Rigid is fun, simple and easy to maintain. Just don’t loose sight of the downsides.
Fatties – not just for snow!
Why ride a fat bike on dirt trails?
It’s not unreasonable to ask why bother riding a fat bike on dirt trails when the big rubber isn’t needed for flotation. Here are my top 10 reasons…
- you already have a fat bike and don’t want to buy a 2nd rig.
- you want an excuse to buy a fat bike, but don’t have snow or sand locally.
- you’ve ridden your local trails so many times on normal MTBs you are looking for a fresh perspective on the same dirt.
- rigid fat bikes provide an efficient semi-suspended ride that’s very fun.
- you want to explore your local area more and need fat tire floatation/traction at some points of your rides to do so.
- your local trails are only rideable year round with fat rubber.
- you are so strong and generally awesome that you need a handicap for rides with your friends/SO to be fun.
- your regular full suspension MTB is a maintenance hog if ridden in wet sloppy conditions so you want a rain/mud bike.
- you have no idea what’s going on, but you can’t stop thinking about riding a fatty.
- all the cool kids are doing it….=-)
The green zone…
29er Fatty MTB
Note that you can convert almost all fat bikes to standard 29er MTBs with a second wheelset and possibly a suspension fork. The 170mm symmetrical rear dropout fat bike frames work best for this conversion. Once completed you’ll have a 29er with a ton of tire clearance! This might be a good option if you want to use all your stock fat bike parts and spend your upgrade $$ on a light 29er wheelset. Setting up a fat bike as a rigid 29er is no problem. If you want to add a 29er suspension fork you’ll have to consider the stock fork length vs. the suspension fork length and determine whether the fat bike’s handling will be negatively affected. Keep in mind once you roll on 29er MTB hoops it’s really not a fatty any more!
Photo: It’s Time to Ride Blog
The Future
As fat bikes continue to gain market share and folks ride them more on dirt you’ll see lighter stock bikes being sold by the major players as well as dirt specific designs which will include hardtails as well as fully suspended fat bikes. Once we have light suspended fat bikes readily available the answer to these questions will change. If you can’t wait and have a lot of $$$ to spend you can get a custom built fully suspended fat bike from a number of bike builders.
Scott rocks my Pugsley…
My Reality
I ride my Surly Pugsley on our local trails as a straight up mountain bike. Not because I need to or I have any aspirations for a 1 bike fleet. It’s a great all around bike that puts a smile on my face when I throw a leg over it. With no suspension and an IGH it’s very low maintenance which is ideal for our sloppy winter conditions and the traction of huge 4″ knobbies isn’t a bad thing either when our trails are wet. I do get beat up a lot more on the Pugsley than on my 29er hardtail or 26er full suspension bike so I ride less aggressively and I don’t use it every ride. I’ve been keeping tabs on the current state of the art in fat suspension forks. I may well buy one at some point, but so far the cost/performance/availability curves haven’t hit a sweet spot for me. I understand some of the major players have fat forks in the works so I’m hopeful there will be something I’m stoked about out for the 2013 or 2014 riding season.
I don’t see myself getting rid of the Pugsley until the frame dies of natural causes. It’s a very versatile fat bike for XC riding, snow/sand missions and bikepacking. Once fat suspension hits the mainstream I could probably be talked into a new fat bike designed to work with a suspension fork…possibly even a full suspension rig. The Pugsley has a short stock fork on it which doesn’t lend itself to adding suspension without compromising the steering geometry. If I do get a hardtail or full squish fatty the Pugsley will get refocused as a soft conditions machine. A mission it tackles well.
Update: I’ve decided to give up on the Pugsely as a MTB. My Nomad does a better job and between full suspension and huge 2.4″ tires gets enough traction to ride our trails in winter. The maintenance issue is the only drawback, but riding a fully rigid MTB on our rocky/rooty trails wasn’t as much fun as I had hoped. I’m going to keep it for soft conditions use and for bikepacking.
The Lazy Rando Blog... 
Good post, Vik. But, as you know, I’m kinda biased about this subject.
i agree on all points
I might add, don’t get pulled in by the hype and the hipster look. People are always saying how they can ride a fat bike through 8″ of fresh snow, etc., Not true. if the snow is packed down a bit , its good but nothing will get you pedaling through more than 3 or 4 ” of virgin snow. Also I would reiterate, they are heavy and all the new light, wide rims are single wall and drilled so for technical xc type riding they probably wont stand up. Lastly , adding suspension will also add weight and take away from pedaling efficiency
Great perspectives. I battled with this decision last year when I was shopping for a new MTV. I went with the Troll because the Pugsley didn’t seem practical enough. It fell into the maybe-one-day-as-a-fun-bike category but didn’t meet my requirements for regular use.
Thanks for all the insight.
@Dan – quite a few large guys have been hammering the light weight single wall fat rims on dirt/rocks for a season and so far the reports are good. I haven’t heard of any failures. Given my weight [175lbs]and riding style [conservative] I don’t think I would have any issues.
hard to fathom since even regular rims are double wall and not drilled. I guess time will tell
Having 4″ wide tires with 4 times the air volume of a 26″ MTB tire as a cushion between you and the ground probably helps dissipate a lot of the forces the rim would otherwise see.
Excuses 2 and 9 for me. I’ve never had much interest in mountain biking just to mountain bike, but there are times that the most direct route to my destination has terrain I wouldn’t take my regular bike over. Well, maybe I would, and have, but slowly and fully aware that the bike is not cut out for what I’m doing. I am really drawn in by the idea of a bike where pavement, or even roads in general, wouldn’t be the limiting factor in where I could go. This may be the year I have to break down and find the money for a fat bike. I’m only at the beach one week a year, and snow rarely happens here, but I’ve been dreaming up other places where some fat tires might come in handy.
Very well written post Vik. You covered a lot of different points. I especially like the Top Ten list. #1 fits me the most. I don’t ride trails except in the winter with my Pugsley. I keep thinking I may take it out in the summer.
Vik
Nice to sum things up – also good to have an excuse not to get rid of the dual suss quite yet!
Getting a Pugs in the next few months for go anywhere tourer with bikepacking kit, and for Western Australia pea-gravel which is completely unrideable in summer on anything less than 3 inches.
Tom
Yo Vik,
About to return to the states and debating reg 29er or fat bike for the Bend Oregon terrain.
Very helpful post as usual from you
slo joe recumbo
Welcome back Joe. Good luck in your search and let me know what you end up getting.
Thanks Vic
Early look’n seems like it might be a Mukluk because it has a 15″ frame and I’m short, but walk tall.
Have a hard tail 29er (Motobecane) over here in South Africa where the mtb riding is awesome. Only want one mtb and for Bend winters the fat bike will prolly be my choice.
On an off note, really looking to get a rando series done in Oregon this summer.
@Joe – just to give some options the 907 comes in a small & XS frame size. The Fatback goes down to a 14″ frame. Both offer very low stand over for their frame sizes as is.
Nice write up. Some responses I am not so sure of their experience. I have been riding a Mukluk 2 for over a year now and can’t believe the terrain that is now open to me. Do I prefer a fast mtb hardtail ride on hard packed mtb designed trail, hell ya! But that just is not the norm for a local ride for me. I need to get over long sections of sand to ride the fun stuff and in the winter well… FTB is here it has its niche for the right environment. Everything depends on what your typical riding environment. What kind of riding will you do or what to do. The FTB allows multiple options if you have a one bike stable.
glad to see this re-posted.
i just finished a fall of riding nothing but fat bikes here in bend. i was able to go from hot, dry days in august to fall aspen leaves changing and high country drying out, to first turns on dry snow, to current melt/thaw/refreeze nights and i have been doing all of it on one bike. i even had about a 10 day period where the necromancer was my commuter both out of weather necessity and to get creative on the ride home. there is a lot about riding this bike that reminds me of my first 29’er. rigid karate monkey, 3-4 tire choices, etc. my personal experiences aside, i think we’ll see more variety available with fat bikes over the next couple of years. the more adventure oriented folks and all day epic riders will probably see the enjoyment in going fat year round. the weight weenies probably won’t.
i don’t think suspension will make these bikes better. i think tweaking geometry will elevate the performance of these bikes much more than adding a little squish will.
The one thing that has kept me off of fats as a primarty ride… Q factor, (Tread) I get on them and just cant see pedaling that for any length of time. Its the one thing that stands out, and feels weird about all of them. I know that a 100mm bb and spindle that goes with it should not make that much difference, but for me it does. Just feels gross.
Hey Vic, I just posted this on our Google+ community…great post!
How about this: If I had to own only one bike it would be a fat bike. ’nuff said.
Well said. I could only afford one bike. Sold my 29er and bought a Fat Bike. Winter here in Central Oregon and have been on snow covered MUP and forrest roads. Look’n forward to spring and exploring more of the forrest.
Slo Joe
Hey Vic great summary and it answered the questions i had for now. I’m still riding the pugs as my all rounder and only miss my FS 26 when I’m chasing my buddies downhill. Have you written a comparo tween the Pugs and the Krampus? I’m curious about how you’re finding the Krampie
@Dave – I have posted info on MTBR.com in the Krampus threads:
http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/surly-krampus-802452.html [there are a couple more in the Fat Bike & Surly Forums]
The Krampus is a MTB with big tires and not a fat bike. So it’s not going to work in soft conditions nearly as well, but it’s faster, more nimble and more playful to ride.
I have a modified lefty on my Pug, you probably wont be getting any fork that will be lighter. that said, I’ve got holy rolling Darrells, light tires etc. and its still 35lbs. you could shave off 1/2 a lb. with aluminum frame or a lb. with Ti, . My point , I don’t see a fs version being very practical, the chain line is an issue as well as weight, and honestly, its probably not even needed. The fork is great over rough stuff and potholed snow in winter but the tires and a thudbuster takes up any rear issues. Its a fun bike, I also use it for trail work to haul out tools. but for most people I don’t see it as being their only bike.
[…] https://thelazyrando.wordpress.com/2013/02/08/can-a-fat-bike-be-your-only-mountain-bike/ […]
I am looking at a 9zero7 with the 170mm rear to be setup with a normal 29er wheelset and tires for commuter duty in the non-winter seasons. My LBS though has reservations about spoke tension/strength going from the wider hub to the narrower rims. For this setup they think that the a 135mm rear would be much better and they are right, it definately would be better. The question though is whether a 170mm rear would be really that deterimental for a rear 29 wheel?
@NLM – they are wrong. A 135mm wheel will have 17.5mm offset to the driveside to deal with. For a “normal” 29er wheelset that’s a challenge. If you can find a rear 29er rim that has some spoke offset that will help build a strong wheel.
With the 170mm hub you can build up a strong 29r wheel with symmetrically drilled spoke holes since there is no wheel offset to deal with.
Your LBS has the concern backwards.
@Vik, I think the concern was not so much the offset but that a 170mm hub *might* be too wide for good spoke tension leading to a 19-21″ wide rim. Yuo have no concerns about this though?
But I see what you mean about the offset on a 135mm frame. I thought the 9zero7 135mm sliding dropout was lateral/perpendicular to the frame so that it would deal with offset issues when needed. But their slider just lengthens or shortens the stays as needed correct?
@NLM – I don’t see how a wide hub affects the spoke tension. The extra width just makes the base of the “triangle” wider which is a stronger setup. The problem with spoke tension is when the opposite sides are unbalanced – ie. a wheel with poor side to side symmetry will have one high tension set of spokes and one lower tension set of spokes.
You can try mocking up various wheel builds on a wheel building program and see what each option does to the spoke tension and bracing angle.
Let’s put it this way this is the first time I have ever hear anyone concerned about building a 29er wheelset with a 170mm rear hub.
The 907 offset frame is offset 17.5mm to the driveside. This never changes. The slidig dropouts move back and forth to take up chain tension for a SS/FG or IGH drivetrain.
@Vik thanks for your thoughts. Thats good to know b/c I really liked the option of going to a wider tire in the rear of the 170mm frame if I wanted too.
Reblogged this on Surface 604 WordPress Blog.
I’ve been commuting spring summer and fall, for may years. This past winter was my first for commuting. My coldest morning here in northern WI was -34 deg. F. In November I purchased my first Fatbike. It is a fully anodized, flat black, 190 Fatback, handmade in Portland Oregon by Zen frame shop. It weighs in at 29 lbs all wet. Today is May 2nd, and I have yet to take it out due to poor environmental conditions. I will be taking it out within the next three days, weather permiting. I haven’t been able to get myself to take my Picaso out in the nasty elements. You would have to see it to truly appreciate its beauty. In January I purchased a Salsa Mukluk 2, second hand. The salsa weighs in at 37 lbs. Both frames are aluminum. I have commuted on the Salsa, 9 miles one way, almost every day since. Fatbikes have become the only bikes I care to ride. I’ve even purchased a Burly Nomad so I can take them grocery shopping. Fatbikes can be your your only bike, if you so choose 🙂
Thanks for the insightful article. Every winter I get the bug but havent pulled the trigger yet. I’ve been spending most time on my CX bike and I think I hit the trails 5 times in 2014. So I hate the thought of something sitting in my garage doing nothing, a 4 season bike sounds great. I already have a second custom built CX that sits and I’m tempted to sell it and my Niner to buy a good Fatbike for the goal of simplifying my life. I don’t race anymore and mostly ride solo these days and never was a super fast guy, I just dig getting out exploring..so maybe it’s time to liquidate and buy one or rent for a week to try out. Just don’t want to pigeon hole myself…
MIke – if you live some place where you can rent a fat bike that sounds like a great idea.
I’m really having a dilemma over getting a fat bike. I’ve tried a Salsa carbon fiber Beargrease & I think it’s slow & has a harsh ride. I have 3 mtbs including a 29er hardtail with a Thudbuster seatpost, & a 2012 Superfly AL Pro dual suspension. Both are much smoother riding, I can go all out over the rough stuff, and I have yet to find anyplace I can’t ride them, except in deeper snow. If the snow is that deep, I ski. I keep searching in my mind for a reason to go fat. It seems like I’m trying to create places to ride a fat bike. I already ride way off the single path, right through the woods.
@Tim – doesn’t sound like you should buy a fatbike.
I think you are correct.
@Tim – Fatbikes are tools. When you need one they are great, but if you don’t they are just expensive and take up space. We sold our fatbike recently.
Gonna try my first fat bike on cross-country ski trails this weekend in Oka, Canada. Looking forward to it.
It’s done, my girlfriend and I rented a Norco Bigfoot. I’m an avid mtb she’s the road type. We both LOVED the bike, super light and the tires provide the feeling of having some kind suspension on the bike. It was easy to ride on snowshoe trails and groom xc ski trails. We found the limit on the frozen lake with crusty snow, it’s feasible but very difficult. Climbing and downhill was done with no problem and good response on small jumps too. Skiers seemed jealous of our pace and kept asking if it’s worth trying. 90 minutes on it and we had a good workout, that’s for sure. We rent it again soon.
Here are the specs :http://www.norco.com/bikes/mountain/fat-bike/bigfoot/
Nice article, I am live in the West Coast in South Africa and only knew these beasts existed from September 2014 – yes we are a little behind some times.
As an owners of a small LBS, I managed to get my hands on a Mongoose Argus fatty.
I must say that I am totally smitten with it. Ok, so we don’t have the ultimate trails here as you have North America, our trails are mostly very well suited for 29er XC bikes with plenty of gravel, unfortunately we have to travel distances to get to a decent trail otherwise we are stuck with gravel jeep track.
I cycle every friday in the dunes with my mate – a fellow fat biker with a 9 Zero Seven – it is within this environment that the fatties really come to life and make sense, albeit a very tough cycle with lots of cadence but great for stamina building.
I have gone the extra mile and sold my 29er hard tail as I no longer use it since I bought the fatty.
With the experience I have had from my rigid 26×4.0 Mongoose, I am totally happy using it as my primary bike. Yes, some of it can be a harder ride as times, depending on the tyre pressure and yes it can be an extended workout to do the same distance one would do on a lighter 29er.
But, the fun, oh the fun, that’s what its all about, fat biking, whether in snow, on the dunes, on the trails or jeep track, brings biking back to its original Gary Fisher inspired roots.
The fatty may not be as nimble at 8 psi or 0.4bar and can be a pig in handling, but once you are used to it, it becomes predictable.
I have gone further and be riding the fatty on a road race this coming Sunday, with the tyres at 1.2 bar and plan to train primarily on my fatty in order to complete our gruelling 96km Karoo to Coast race in September later this year – wish me well.
I own a custom built Surly Pugsley geared 1×9, which I ride often, and I can share the following:
general thoughts:
I’ve never wished i had more gearing, maybe a little more but it was never a do or die situation with 1 x 9
There are only a handful of friends who ride mountain bikes that I can’t quite keep up with because of the fat bike
It’s kind of annoying trying to put a rear rack on because of the offset frame
maintenance is great, only the rear derailleur, drive train and disc brake rotors to clean and maintain
because it’s a solid bike, i could give a shit less when it falls, gets scratched or any kind of abuse
For winter riding:
It’s a ton of fun
A fat bike is required, a 29er plus won’t cut it
The Pugsley is awesome and versatile and surprisingly fast and nimble, you don’t need a fancy expensive fat bike to make riding fun
For warm weather riding:
It’s a ton more of fun! (i mean, its much more fun riding trails without snow)
you’ll work harder than with a narrower tired mountain bike
You won’t be able to corner as quickly because of how wide the tires are
you can ride up rocks and sand when others stop or go around
because there are no shocks, you definitely feel the bumps going fast (however, a lot less if you have less air in the tires)
I pass all fats with my road bike(700×28 Conti Slicks at around 60psi) in deep snow. Just sayin….So weird people buy these to commute on.
Only have a fatty now gave my xc hardtail away ,awesome on single track pretty hardcore riding here in New Zealand, article must be old as my fatty lighter than my xc bike each to there own but I’ll never go back .
I have a norco bigfoot 6.3 here in calgary canada, we do have quite a few bike trails and i must say, for some reason, riders here tend to be purist to the point that i was asked to get a real bike. I dont understand why there so much hate, as far as i know, all bikes has a pair of pedals, 2 tires,handle bar and a seat. To avoid confrontation, i ride my bike on rode since up in the trails, there seemed to be guys who has bigger dicks.
great write up.
if could only own one bike, it would be my Bigfoot.
@Joel, That’s too bad, I live there too, I know what you mean, there are a lot of dicks in Calgary, and if you don’t own a NEW $4000+ bike you are scum and shouldn’t be riding the same trails as they do.
I have been seeing a lot more fat bikes on the trail, and I think we will start seeing more hybrid fat bikes with full suspension but 3″ 3.5″ tires. May not be as good in the deeper snow, but there is a point where the 4.-4.7″ tire is no good either.
Greetings: I am a fat biker. I am an addict. My addiction is fat bikes. I own two. One is,a Gravity Bullseye Monster, which is rigid. It has over 3000 miles on it and now is semi-retired.
The second is also a Gravity, it’s the Gravity Bullseye Monster Pro. This sled has a Rock shox Bluto up front. It has literally saved my arthritis hands a lot of pain.
When I started ridings fat I weighed a little over 295 pound, was on oxygen and took a bunch of meds. It’s been three years since I started this adventure and although I have had a few set backs, my weight is now 250 pounds, I’m off oxygen and only take three meds for my heart.
Would I recommend a fat bike as a primary bike? YES!!!
have been riding a 29er hardtail for 5 years….alum frame…new upgradelight wheel set rockshox reba fork and set up tubeless…bike weighs sub 26 lbs….bought a 2017 Norco Bigfoot 6.2 fat bike n the fall of 2017 and received 20% off as the 2018 were out…used this savings to swap out the Kenda Juggernauts for Schwalbe Jumbo Jim Snakeskins (my choice based on reviews) and set up tubeless…my XL frame comes in at sub 33 lbs with pedals on….i love it..rode it before the snow flew up here in Ontario…finished my regular trail ride of an hour at about the same overall time…a hair slower on climbs…a bit more sluggish to get up to speed after you slow down in a corner…but you can corner more aggressively with the endless amount grip…and on anything slightly downhill it just rolls with a ton of momentum and overall speed….in the snow its been a blast on snowmobile trails and even the single track that has been packed down by snowshoers and winter hikers….and let me say that on the trail ride before the snow flew, this rigid bike was not that harsh (my comparison is a hardtail though) ….4.8 inch tires absorbed quite a bit and compared to hardtail it was obviously more ‘cushion’ on the back end (again with the 4.8 inch tires)…..with my original purchase price on my 2014 hardtail and the upgrades I’ve put into it I’ve got close to $3000 into it….i might sell it if I can get a grand as I think I will be reaching for this new fat bike in the summer….will give both a go in the spring for a month or so to decide…..but one thing is for sure….fat bike rocks….im out in minus 8 to minus 15 degree weather all the time now having a blast