Where the FAT is AT?

Sharon’s purple Pugsley mostly rebuilt…

Still need a chain, saddle and grips…

I put on some Surly Endomorph and Larry tires for sand biking and summer/dry MTBing…

I like the contrast of fresh paint and old worn parts…

Drilling My Fatbike Rims…

Sharon’s front Pugsley wheel…

I’m [slowly] working on building up Sharon’s Pugsley from the parts Kurt gave me. The frame has been powder coated and new headset installed. The next move was cleaning and drilling out her Surly Large Marge rims. These Large Marge DH rims are heavy – very heavy, but they are paid for so rather than replace them I decided to drill them out.

Just a reminder where we started…

I’ve got Sharon’s front wheel drilled out and looking back I gotta say this is not a DIY project I would recommend unless you are totally motivated to get ‘er done. It’s noisy, messy [you'll be covered with tiny metal shards] and you can potentially trash your rim. If you own some fat rims and want to drill them fair enough. I’ve warned you!

I’ll finish her rear rim, but I won’t drill out my Surly Large Marge DH rims. I have enough leg power that it’s not vital and when the time comes I’ll just buy some new single walled Surly rims that are already cut out. When I can afford it the price will be worth the hassle I’ll save plus I’ll use light weight hubs for a really killer weight savings and keep my old Pugsley wheels for heavy duty use.

Sharon won’t throw money at bikes like I do [silly!] so one set of wheels has to do it all.

The hole saw – your friend…

I have very few powered tools so here is what I drilled out the rim with:

• electric drill
• small drill bit for pilot hole
• 1.5″ hole saw attachment
• marking tool
• ruler
• dremel tool with grinding bits
• needle nose pliers
• eye protection
• 6 ice cold Mexican beers and a fresh lime

Yikes!

This wheel has been used a lot over several years so I gave it a once over only to discover the aluminum spoke nipples are corroded to the point of self-destruction. I replaced a few with bronze nipples, but at some point this wheel will need to be totally rebuilt.

Oh well. You aren’t riding hard if you aren’t breaking things…;)

Measure and mark…

First thing I had to do is pull the tire, tube and rim tape. Then I marked halfway between the spokes along the centerline of the rim.

Drill pilot holes…

Next up drill a pilot hole at each mark.

Test fitting the hole saw…

I had room for a 1.5″ hole between the spokes.

Raw hole cut into rim…

Start the less than fun process of cutting out holes. This will generate a ton of tiny metal fragments so do it outside if you can or at least not in the living room on your lovely deep shag carpet…=-) I braced the wheel up against the steps of my deck while cutting out the holes. You can use a wall or work bench. Other folks have built jigs to hold the wheel or put the wheel into a fat bike frame that was secured to something else.

Upgraded hole saw…

I foolishly bought the cheapest hole saw at my local hardware store when I started this project. It lasted about halfway through the first rim before it was toast. So I went back and got a better quality hole saw which should get me through the second rim. As soon as you notice the cutting performance of your saw changing swap in a new one.

Holes cut…

Cutting the holes is not tragically hard, but I’ve done more fun DIY bike projects.

Rough edge…

Once the holes were cut I used a dremel tool to smooth out the rough edges. I may use a round file for wheel #2 as it was hard to maneuver the dremel around the spokes.

Smooth edges…

These rims are old and this bike will actually get ridden so I didn’t waste a lot of time trying to make it look bike show perfect. Note the self-destructing middle spoke nipple.

Weight savings = ~200g…

I collected all the big bits of metal and weighed them as 195g say ~200g savings with all the smaller bits included.

Truing the wheel…

After all the cutting and grinding was done I replaced some corroded nipples and gave the wheel some love. I’m not looking for perfection. I just don’t want the wheel to exploded mid-ride.

I should note that given the double wall construction and amount of material used in these Large Marge DH rims I don’t think the drilled out holes will compromise their strength in any meaningful way. Big guys are rocking the single walled cut out Surly Marge Lites so we shouldn’t have an issue.

The purple pugsley starting to come together…

It took me a solid afternoon of futzing with this one wheel to get ‘er done. I’m not fast at these sorts of projects so you may do better.

I threw some white duct tape in the rim to cover the new holes so I could mount the tube and a skinny 3.8″. Sharon will probably come up with something a bit more “pretty” at some point.

Front done…now for the rear rim…

So a few warnings:

• don’t hurt yourself [wear eye protection]
• don’t mistake the valve hole for a pilot hole and cut it out
• don’t get too enthusiastic pressing down on the hole saw or you can take out a couple spokes

Mo’ Pugsley Redux Again!

Purple because it’s got attitude!

I collected our 2nd Pugsley from the powdercoaters Friday. Sharon picked a light purplely colour for her frame. I haven’t cleaned up her parts nor sourced some coloured brake/shift housing yet so the rebuild will take a week or two still.

Osmond Family gang colours…=-)

I’ve also decided to drill out the Surly Large Marge DH rims on her Pugley. They are a very heavy rim so that will drop some weight per wheel not to mention I can then use pink rim tape on her wheels…=-) I may get off my butt and set them up tubeless as well which will also reduce their weight considerably. I’ll run a Larry up front and a Endomorph at the back on her bike.

Sandman Fat Bike Video…

Can a fat bike be your only mountain bike?

Dropping in on the Green Machine...

If you are taking the time to read this post you probably already know that fat bikes are not just for snow or sand anymore. People are starting to ride fat bikes on trails that they could ride with a standard 2.1″-2.4″ mountain bike tire. Two questions I get asked frequently are 1) can a fat bike be my only mountain bike? and 2) why ride a fat bike on a trail that a normal MTB can ride?

Can a fat bike be your only MTB?

The short answer is yes.

The longer answer is yes, but you need to be realistic about what a fat bike can do well and what it’s not ideal for.

First off most fat bikes are rigid. Yes there are some niche suspension options, but nothing that I would say is reasonably priced, widely available and high performance. That will change in the next year or two, but for now you are most likely going to be riding a fully rigid fat bike. That’s good in that it will be low maintenance for harsh environments. Fat tires do provide some very limited suspension action all on their own when properly inflated. A rigid bike can be fast and efficient on smooth trails. However, as the trail gets rougher and rougher you have to slow down to maintain control plus you’ll have to stand a bunch to absorb impacts. The end result is a slower more tiring ride on rough terrain.

Secondly most fat bikes are heavy with slow rolling rubber. In order to keep costs low in a niche part of the bike industry companies are specing their bikes with heavy cheap parts and basic frame tubes. Given that wheels, tires and tubes on a fat bike are bigger than a normal MTB to begin with using heavy parts here exacerbates the problem. If you have the know how and $$$ you can put your fat bike on diet the same as any bike. Although if you are going to spend $4K on a light fat bike you might want to consider spending $2K on a stock fat bike and $2K on a light stock 29er hardtail to get more bang for your buck. Riding a heavy bike is tiring if your trails involve a lot of climbing and constant accelerations. OTOH smooth rolling trails don’t penalize a heavy bike as much.

Thirdly what do your buddies ride? The bike you ride will dictate the trails you prefer, the speed you ride and the distance you ride. If your friends are on rigid 29er single speed rigs a fat bike would likely fit into the mix a lot better than if they had uber light XC bikes or 6″+ travel all mountain bikes.

Fourthly how steep and techy are the trails you ride? Production fat bikes have pretty middle of the road MTB geometries that are good for XC riding and plowing through snow. They don’t have the super slack angles of an all mountain rig. As the downhills get steeper and rougher you won’t be smiling nearly as much as you could on a fully suspended MTB with really slack angles. The steering geometries of fat bikes are starting to vary a bit more from somewhat slacker snow friendly options like the Salsa Mukluk, to all rounders like the Surly Pugsley and dirt specific designs like the new On One dirt specific fat bike. So it’s worth doing your research before you buy.

How fit and skilled a rider are you? The better the engine and skill set the less of a handicap a heavy rigid bike is. In fact if you are the strongest rider in your posse a fat bike might be just the challenge you need to stay even with your friends. OTOH if you struggle to keep up with your regular riding partners as is do you want to make each ride more challenging?

Do you ride alone or will you be riding with other fat bikers? As soon as you take other bikers or other types of bikes out of the equation the unique capabilities of a fat bike really shine. As an exploration rig and a fun machine the big soft tires on your fat bike will let you go places and ride in ways you never thought about before.

So ultimately the answer is that a fat bike is a mountain bike and there is no reason you can’t ride it on your local dirt trails. Rigid is fun, simple and easy to maintain. Just don’t loose sight of the downsides.

Fatties - not just for snow!

Why ride a fat bike on dirt trails?

It’s not unreasonable to ask why bother riding a fat bike on dirt trails when the big rubber isn’t needed for flotation. Here are my top 10 reasons…

1. you already have a fat bike and don’t want to buy a 2nd rig.
2. you want an excuse to buy a fat bike, but don’t have snow or sand locally.
3. you’ve ridden your local trails so many times on normal MTBs you are looking for a fresh perspective on the same dirt.
4. rigid fat bikes provide an efficient semi-suspended ride that’s very fun.
5. you want to explore your local area more and need fat tire floatation/traction at some points of your rides to do so.
6. your local trails are only rideable year round with fat rubber.
7. you are so strong and generally awesome that you need a handicap for rides with your friends/SO to be fun.
8. your regular full suspension MTB is a maintenance hog if ridden in wet sloppy conditions so you want a rain/mud bike.
9. you have no idea what’s going on, but you can’t stop thinking about riding a fatty.
10. all the cool kids are doing it….=-)

The green zone...

29er Fatty MTB

Note that you can convert almost all fat bikes to standard 29er MTBs with a second wheelset and possibly a suspension fork. The 170mm symmetrical rear dropout fat bike frames work best for this conversion. Once completed you’ll have a 29er with a ton of tire clearance! This might be a good option if you want to use all your stock fat bike parts and spend your upgrade $$ on a light 29er wheelset. Setting up a fat bike as a rigid 29er is no problem. If you want to add a 29er suspension fork you’ll have to consider the stock fork length vs. the suspension fork length and determine whether the fat bike’s handling will be negatively affected. Keep in mind once you roll on 29er MTB hoops it’s really not a fatty any more!

Photo: It's Time to Ride Blog

The Future

As fat bikes continue to gain market share and folks ride them more on dirt you’ll see lighter stock bikes being sold by the major players as well as dirt specific designs which will include hardtails as well as fully suspended fat bikes. Once we have light suspended fat bikes readily available the answer to these questions will change. If you can’t wait and have a lot of $$$ to spend you can get a custom built fully suspended fat bike from a number of bike builders.

Scott rocks my Pugsley...

My Reality

I ride my Surly Pugsley on our local trails as a straight up mountain bike. Not because I need to or I have any aspirations for a 1 bike fleet. It’s a great all around bike that puts a smile on my face when I throw a leg over it. With no suspension and an IGH it’s very low maintenance which is ideal for our sloppy winter conditions and the traction of huge 4″ knobbies isn’t a bad thing either when our trails are wet. I do get beat up a lot more on the Pugsley than on my 29er hardtail or 26er full suspension bike so I ride less aggressively and I don’t use it every ride. I’ve been keeping tabs on the current state of the art in fat suspension forks. I may well buy one at some point, but so far the cost/performance/availability curves haven’t hit a sweet spot for me. I understand some of the major players have fat forks in the works so I’m hopeful there will be something I’m stoked about out for the 2013 or 2014 riding season.

I don’t see myself getting rid of the Pugsley until the frame dies of natural causes. It’s a very versatile fat bike for XC riding, snow/sand missions and bikepacking. Once fat suspension hits the mainstream I could probably be talked into a new fat bike designed to work with a suspension fork…possibly even a full suspension rig. The Pugsley has a short stock fork on it which doesn’t lend itself to adding suspension without compromising the steering geometry. If I do get a hardtail or full squish fatty the Pugsley will get refocused as a soft conditions machine. A mission it tackles well.

Return of the Shred…

Scott gets the first drop in with his Jones...

After a bunch of riding down in Sedona AZ I was excited and also a bit apprehensive to return to the brooding winter trails on the South Shore of Vancouver Island’s rainforest.

The Jones Spaceframe looks right at home in the woods.

Sedona’s cheerful sunniness and endless traction had spoilt us.

Sharon takes the highroad...

I didn’t realize how much I missed our rocky, rooty, loamy trails until I went away and came back.

The lowdown...

They are challenging, but they are also beautiful.

So stoked to be home I'm glowing...

Best of all we have so many miles of trails and so few local riders it’s like a private playground.

Note the 4" & 5" rubber most of our bikes sport for traction...

Scott brought his Jones Spaceframe for its first dirt ride. It’s a super sweet bike and we are all keen to see how it performs on our trails.

Sharon carves it up...

Sharon stuck to her trusty Santa Cruz Nomad all mountain rig with skinny 2.35″ tires, but 6″+ of suspension travel at both ends to smooth out the bumps and keep the wheels glued to the trail.

Fat green machine...

I threw a leg over my Surly Pugsley that I Jones-fied as an experimental comparison with Scott’s Jones Spaceframe.

Sharon lost in the green zone...

The fact we can all ride well and have fun on such different machines is testament to the great mountain bikes that are available to riders these days. They are different for sure, but the bottom line is they can all get you around your local trails with a smile on your face.

Torture testing the Spaceframe...

The important thing is to get out there and ride your bike. The rest is just details!

Green with Envy?

I was really happy with how the Pugsley performed with knobby Surly Nate 3.7″ tires and moving my riding position a couple inches to the rear. The result is a fun playful bike that can climb slick terrain and isn’t afraid of the steeps.

I do miss Sedona's red rocks though...

It’s quite a contrast after riding a SC Nomad day after day in Sedona!

There is a reason this is called a rainforest!

There were some juicy sections of trail to remind us we were riding in costal BC.

Sharon chillaxing in the MTB skills park...

After the ride we goofed around in the Hartland MTB skills park.

Scott throwing the Jones around...

Scott impressed us with his stunt riding on the Jones.

Lean Mean Speed Machine...

I tried to operate the new DSLR reasonably well, but all the controls and options are pretty daunting I must say!

My Surly Pugsley...dirty, but happy...=-)

Jones Spaceframe vs. Surly Pugsley…

My Jonesly/Jugsley with a Jones Spaceframe...

The Jeff Jones Spaceframe mountain bike with wild truss fork is a design I’ve been keen to check out for a while. Besides the usual issues of cost and storage the Jones presents a few new problems that slow any bicycle acquisition plans:

1. totally unique design makes you ask how is it going to ride?
2. relatively high cost for a production bike makes you want to make the right choice.
3. one size frame that is on the small side of what I’d normally get makes me wonder if it will even fit.
4. rare as hell so forget about a test ride.
5. Jeff Jones advocates the use of a 5″ front tire/wheel, but since he uses a proprietary front hub/fork any wheel you build will only work on this bike…so do you build it as a 29er of a half-fat? Trying both is expensive.

A boy and his new bike...

As luck would have it Scott “Porcelain Rocket” Felter is even a bigger bike geek than me. So it’s not completely shocking to me that he just built up a shinny new Jones steel Spaceframe. I was very happy to hear this both because I am stoked for a buddy to get some new wheels and because I would finally get to ride a fabled Jones mountain bike and see if everything I read online was real.

What Jeff has to say about his design...

So what’s so special about a Jones Spaceframe design?

• Jeff has been perfecting his concept for years building custom bikes for himself and customers.
• his custom business was so successful he no longer takes any orders due to an excessive waiting list.
• he has a rabidly loyal following of customers on his custom and production bikes.
• Jeff designs complete bikes including frame/fork and components. This allows him to refine his designs in a way that a frame builder can’t.
• His bikes put your weight way back over the rear wheel for a light front end that is easy to loft over obstacles.
• a short TT and swept back bars put you well behind the front wheel sitting, but as you stand your weight moves forward to keep the front wheel planted on steep climbs.
• an ultra stiff fork with low trail front end and 135 wide front hub makes for very precise steering.
• clearance for widest 29er tires in rear and Surly’s 5″ Big Fat Larry on the front.
• EBB for IGH or SS use, but gears are and option as well.
• design of frame is supposed to help smooth out ride by transferring bump forces away from rider.

It’s too early to confirm or deny the performance claims of the Jones design, but you can agree that Jeff has built a very unique mountain bike that’s pushing the boundaries of the industry paradigm on the trails. I can also say that it’s a beautiful bike to behold in person with lovely lines and a purposeful stance.

She's a playful steed...

Once you get over the unique design you’ll rightly ask yourself what kind of riding is this bike for? Based on the limited experience I’ve had with it so far and what I’ve read about other folks’ rides online I’d characterize it as an all mountain play bike. It’s capable of rolling along smooth XC trails just fine and when the trail gets steep and techy it has the rearward weight bias, leverage at the wide bars and stiff front end to drop down anything you have the balls to try. Now it’s fully rigid – fat front not withstanding – so you will be going slow and choosing your line with care when my Nomad’s 6″ of travel wil allow it to bomb the gnar without a second thought. I don’t think that’s a better or worse option – they are just two different ways to come at a problem.

Lazy gets a spin...

Whether or not the Jones design makes sense for you will depend on where you ride and who you ride with. I don’t ride for the fastest average speed or most miles of trail complete per session. I ride to smile!

So far the Jones has been a smile factory...

Scott set his Jones up single speed with a fat front and Jones Loop H-bars to stay true to the Jones philosophy. It looks like an ideal bike for our local riding which is slow and techy with traction issues and lots of wet dirt for munching an expensive drivetrain. Scott’s a monster so there is no doubt he’ll still crush us mere mortals no matter what he rides so I’m keen to see how normal folks like Sharon, A-Man and myself fare on the Jones.

Ponesly?, Jugsley?, Jonesly?

I couldn’t help, but notice some similarities between my Pugsley and Scott’s Jones:

• fat front
• Loop H-bars
• Pug = 23.4″ eff TT vs. 23″ on Jones
• Pug wheelbase = 42.6″ vs 42″ for Jones
• Pug and Jones = 72.0 deg seattube angle
• Pug HT angle = 70.5 & Jones = 70.0
• Pug fork offset = 43mm & 55mm for Jones

With a seatback seatpost [or jamming my SA saddle all the way back] to simulate the rearward weight bias of the Jones my Pugsley gets pretty close to the same numbers. The biggest difference is the Jones has lower trail than the Pugsley plus the Pug has a fat rear tire as well.

Cousins?

Before Jeff Jones sends out a hit squad to silence my heresy…;-) I am not suggesting my Pugsley is the same as a Jones. I can’t do anything about the fork offset of the Pugsley so the handling will always be different. All I am saying is that it seems possible to replicate some of the elements of the Jones design in a Pugsley to, hopefully, end up with a fun playful bike that makes a good companion for a Jones on our local trails.

Time for some Nates...

As amazing as the Jones Spaceframe & truss fork combo is the Pugsley has some advantages of its own:

• can be run full fat, half fat or full 29er
• Pugsley complete can be had for about the same price as Jones Spaceframe/truss fork/Loop H-bar
• full fat means a Pugsley can be used in snow/sand where a skinny Jones 29er rear would sink
• you can use a suspension fork on a Pugsley
• a stock Pugsley comes setup with a versatile XC geometry and cockpit position
• if you want you can Jones-ify a Pugsley with Loop H-bars and a setback seatpost

To take advantage of  the full fat option I put some Surly Nate tires on my Pugsley. This gives me a huge rear tire footprint for traction on our sloppy trails and some passive suspension effect due to the 4″ wide low pressure tire.

Jones Loop H-bars...

You can see in the picture above how far back your hands are using the Loop H-bars vs. a flat bar or XC riser bar. This shortens your effective top tube quite a bit so you need to either buy a larger frame if you want the typical centered XC/touring body position or you need to get a setback seatpost and push your body weight further over the rear wheel. The later option allows for using both positions depending on the mission at hand. When I get a chance I’ll try the rear biased body position in sand/snow to see if less weight on the front wheel compromises the traction at that end on flat terrain. If it doesn’t that would be awesome to not have to switch back and forth.

Ramming the SA all the way back...

Without a setback seatpost the best I could do was ramming my SA saddle all the way back…sadly this bent the rails….I’m too chicken to verify how badly….hopefully I didn’t trash and expensive saddle…=-( I’ll be getting this issue sorted as soon as possible.

Scott throwing the Jones around...

Let’s face it talk is cheap…what we need is some back to back trail riding testing. Don’t worry we are happy to oblige…=-)

Dropping into the Green Machine...

Jones-Pugsley Hybrid…

Photo: Tripower @ MTBR.com

I’ve had some lust going on for a Jeff Jones mountain bike for the last year or so. Besides the cost of getting a new bike I really don’t have room for a new bike and a half fat Jones doesn’t replace my Surly Pugsley’s soft conditions capability so it’s not like I’d be simply replacing one fat bike with another.

I just found a post on MTBR.com discussing the positive results of creating a Pugsley Jones hybrid franken-fatty – click on the image above to read it. I’m not 100% sold yet, but I am fully intrigued. I will be looking into this further for sure!

QBP Fat Tidbits…

Salsa Full-Suspension Fatbike...

QBP [aka Quality Bike Parts] owns a lot of bike companies you are familiar with such as Surly and Salsa. For a big company they seem to be cool with a lot of bikey weirdness – which is a good thing. Salsa is showing off a prototype FS fatbike – seen above. Another QBP company 45 North is pimping a prototype fatbike studded tire – seen below. Neither product is available for sale yet, but they both look promising.

Sandman Nepal…

Bob Keller Fatbike

A Bob Keller custom fatbike...

I saw this sweet custom fatbike over at MTBR.com and got excited because unlike all the new fatbike designs with super low toptubes this one keeps the TT high. That looks much nicer and provides a ton of room for a framebag inside the main triangle. I’m sure the owner won’t be repeatedly injured by TT to groin contact…it seems like toe overlap it’s only a problem for some people. I’m glad I got a first generation Pugsley with a taller TT – although it’s not nearly as sweet looking as this bike…=-)

Fat by design...

More info:

• MTBR.com thread
• Bob Keller’s Blog
• Owner’s first ride photos 

On One Fatbike…

On One yet to be named fatbike...

Click on the image above to jump to the MTBR.com thread discussing this new On One fatbike. No name yet and details are sketchy other than to say it’s designed as a fat MTB vs. a snow/sand bike.  It’s great to have another [likely to be competitively priced] fatbike option. My only complaint is I wish top tubes weren’t all headed for my ankles. I’d like room inside the frame for a frame bag and have never injured myself on my Surly Pugsley’s tall TT.

Older post from MTBR.com - with some more info.

Salsa FS Fatbike Prototype…

Click on image for more info...

Salsa is working on a full suspension fatbike frame. It’s just a concept as of this time and without a decent production suspension fork it’s not likely to see the light of day. Having said that it’s a great idea and the fact Salsa is working on a frame at all means it has some chance of becoming reality. That’s very cool.

Click on the image above to read more over on the Salsa site and leave the a comment if you are stoked so they can see there is lots of enthusiasm for the idea.

My own personal wish list would be:

• 75-100mm travel front and back
• quality adjustable production fork from a major brand [RS/Fox/etc...]
• clearance for 3.7″ knobby tires on 82mm rims
• rear end 135mm hub with 17mm offset for IGH compatibility
• frame/shock + fork cost ~$2K

Pugsley LBS Porn…

The window of The Fairfield Bicycle Shop...

Aaron [aka A-Man] Mankowske put together a sweet Surly Pugsley window display at his place of employment – the Fairfield Bicycle Shop.

Looking good!

My green Pugs is adorned with a nice set of Porcelain Rocket bikepacking bags. How can anyone resist the fat-tastic splendour of such a bike?…=-)

Hot from every angle...

Great work Aaron!…=-)

Merry Christmas to myself!

Porcelain Rocket bling - that's how I roll!

Scott’s blog has the details…=-)

Fat Cat Rubber…

Cat - "...Dude get a Big Fat Larry already!.."

Nate’s a stud!

Photo: Caminoloco @ MTBR.com

There is a great post over at MTBR.com’s Fat Tire Forum on installing studs on your Surly Nate fat bike tires. Just click on the photo above to jump there.

Pugsley vs. Regular MTB…

Jeff Jones Spaceframe Semi-Fat…

Click here for more info...

Jeff Jones is making some beautiful spaceframe 29er MTBs that have room up front for a fat tire so you can go semi-fat and enjoy a mildly suspended 29er without a squishy fork. They look like works of art for sure. I found some sweet owner photos of these bikes over at MTBR that is worth a look – very drool worthy.

Frame details...

Pugsley on Patrol…

Photo: Pugsley on Patrol

Aaron pointed me at the UK based Pugsley on Patrol site which full of tons of fatbike content for anyone who’s keen to learn more about these beasts. You’ll find photos, videos and lots of tech articles. It’s a great resource!…=-) I’m really stoked to see so much fattire love on the internet.